E85 questions

[TMAC]

It would seem that there are finally several stations reasonably close to me that now have E85 pumps.
So I am seriously considering doing the E85 switch at the end of the year.
So add set of ID1300 injectors to the engine and a tune.
Here's my question. All else being equal (no changes except for the larger injectors and tune), what kind of power increase am I looking at?

 

[MaxCarnage]

I believe the Hellcat either needs a BAP or twin pumps to run E85 along with injectors.

@curt_dusterhofftuning can answer more questions for you. He does lots of E85 work and will be the person I have tune my car when the time comes. Curt also likes the FIC 1200 injectors for E85 vs the ID1300s. They are about $800 cheaper.

 

[Marc W]

First thing you want to do before considering changing over is find out what percentages those new stations are going to provide. Learn how to test it and do that for a while before taking their word for it. The so called e85 can vary from 50 to 85+ percent. Some places take the quality of their fuel seriously (they know that it’s being used for performance) and you will get the good stuff every time. Others will vary. Besides the larger injectors you will need to increase the volume to those injectors from the pump. Using a experienced e85 Hellcat/Demon tuner is most important. He will tell you what he wants as far as injectors and pumps go. Good e85 is basically race fuel and can be tuned accordingly.

 

[coolblue]

First thing you want to do before considering changing over is find out what percentages those new stations are going to provide. Learn how to test it and do that for a while before taking their word for it. The so called e85 can vary from 50 to 85+ percent. Some places take the quality of their fuel seriously (they know that it’s being used for performance) and you will get the good stuff every time. Others will vary. Besides the larger injectors you will need to increase the volume to those injectors from the pump. Using a experienced e85 Hellcat/Demon tuner is most important. He will tell you what he wants as far as injectors and pumps go. Good e85 is basically race fuel and can be tuned accordingly.

Little out of left field. When you run E85 does it burn so much cleaner (even though your burning more fuel) you'll pass emissions even without cats?

 

[TMAC]

I already have a staged dual fuel pump system (the big Walbro 525's) from Fore. Full return setup, not dead head like factory. Volume will not be a problem.
And its definitely E85, not E50 at the stations I am talking about. I also know I need to test. And this is the part that still concerns me. If the quality of this fuel is that unreliable, so much so that it needs to be tested before using, maybe switching isn't such a good idea.

 

[Blkout]

I already have a staged dual fuel pump system (the big Walbro 525's) from Fore. Full return setup, not dead head like factory. Volume will not be a problem.
And its definitely E85, not E50 at the stations I am talking about. I also know I need to test. And this is the part that still concerns me. If the quality of this fuel is that unreliable, so much so that it needs to be tested before using, maybe switching isn't such a good idea.

If Curt Dusterhoff tunes it, you'll be able to determine the quality of the fuel by the AF ratio gauge in the car. When its around 9:1, its good E85, I've got two stations around my house, one has a sign on it that says guaranteed at least 85% ethanol, the other says guaranteed at least 70% ethanol, even though they're both E85 pumps. I've seen the AF ratio go no higher than 9.5:1 or so with the E70 blend but its still WAY more than enough octane on a high boost car.

HP Tuners will also show you the ethanol content of the fuel you're using.

Go with Curt's flex tune and you won't have to worry as much about checking the quality of your E85 since the tune will adjust accordingly, assuming you're not running a pulley smaller than a 2.75.

 

[Hickster]

The fuel stations will lie to ya. For a few months I was running 1/2 tank 93 and 1/2 110 octane. After a lot of time in the shop, dealership, warranty, thank mermaids. After a lot of work and factory engineer looking at the 2018 H/C new, a lot was going wrong. After reading a post on the other site of a station selling 110 octane as unleaded and having the same problems as mine. Same codes and parts. Come to find out this $8.88 a gallon fuel was leaded and selling as non leaded. Like the post before said, have it tested. I could have lost an engine instead of this rep from Chrysler approving over $18,000 worth of work on a warranty situation. Blamed it on the K & N intake. Some people remember this situation. Fuel rails 3 times, catalytic converters, gaskets, injectors, and on and on. Gas stations don't care what they sale. Another station was selling e85 but the delivery truck was contaminated with a mixture of E85 and another type of fuel. Not good.

 

[Blkout]

If you're using HP Tuners to data log or running Curt's tune, testing isnt necessary unless you've asked Curt specifically for a very aggressive tune because you're running top tier E85. HP Tuners and Curt's tune will both tell you the ethanol content using your existing wideband O2 sensors.

 

[Hickster]

Oh yea,, forgot about the O2 sensors. They will tell the story. Went thru a dozen of those critters. Every time that part has to be dug into has to have that replaced,, like it or not. Moe $$$ if not under a warranty or a great surface rep.

 

[ptlawn]

Put an ethanol content gauge in your car. Sensor hooks right in your fuel line. That way you mow exactly what’s going into your engine.

 

[Sinister_cat]

If I remember correctly from the forum we migrated from, you're in AZ correct?

Be careful because AZ pumps are "flex fuel" not true E85. ethanol content 54% year round so they don't have to mess with seasonal blends.

Once I get mine converted to ethanol I plan on running the flex fuel mixed with some torco race e98. When its track time and kill mode I'll run pure e98 from torco..

 

[TMAC]

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

If I remember correctly from the forum we migrated from, you're in AZ correct?

Be careful because AZ pumps are "flex fuel" not true E85. ethanol content 54% year round so they don't have to mess with seasonal blends.

Once I get mine converted to ethanol I plan on running the flex fuel mixed with some torco race e98. When its track time and kill mode I'll run pure e98 from torco..

OK. That convinces me that switching is not going to happen. If you can't even trust the pump sign that specifically says E85, then screw it.

 

[Blkout]

If I remember correctly from the forum we migrated from, you're in AZ correct?

Be careful because AZ pumps are "flex fuel" not true E85. ethanol content 54% year round so they don't have to mess with seasonal blends.

Once I get mine converted to ethanol I plan on running the flex fuel mixed with some torco race e98. When its track time and kill mode I'll run pure e98 from torco..

True E85 is flex fuel also.

 

[Blkout]

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk


OK. That convinces me that switching is not going to happen. If you can't even trust the pump sign that specifically says E85, then screw it.

Even 54% ethanol would have a significantly higher knock resistance than 93 gas.

 

[Sinister_cat]

True E85 is flex fuel also.

It is, but arizona is retarded about ethanol fuels

 

[fubar569]

On E58 I gained 50whp exactly with NO pulley change on my CTS-V.

Still worth it to switch. A flex tune is the way to go.

 

[cole3986]

Test the fuel to find out what is what. E85 makes more power than race gas, just have to insure quality is there.

 

[TMAC]

Not happy about having to test. Seems like a messy process. Fuel on the hands, smelly items in the trunk, etc.
Looking into a test kit to see how that's done. But my interest level in making this change has definitely declined.

 

[Marc W]

Let me see if I can make some sense of this. If “flex fuel” in Arizona is a regulated 54% then that is as reliable as the 91 octane rating in their premium pump gas. Arizona is saying that that is what is going to be in those pumps year round and it is not going to vary. Remember that you can not test pump gas to see what you’re getting. 91 octane? There have been cases when it was not. So the question is.... what’s better if you are just going to trust what’s coming outta the pump. E54 or 91? If you want to make more power... talk to a knowledgeable ethanol tuner about what he can do with the e54 vs a 91 pump tune. I’m going to bet that he’ll tell you that you can safely make much more power on the e54 than 91. If you already have the pumps to deliver the volume and you change to the bigger injectors then you can either do a flex tune or two separate e tunes. One for 54 and one for 85. You can buy Torco 85 by the drum or fill jugs for the occasion you want to go to the track. My shop there in Phoenix sells it for around $6 a gallon.

 

[HellcatMatt]

Testing is quite simple, not messy or smelly at all if you get the process down and take your time. I use a tester, a small syringe and paint mixing cup with a lid. If time and patience aren't available to you, its probably not for you. Especially if you daily drive it, consider lots of fill-ups with single digit MPG.