Live action from FUMANCHU182.

[Speedy!]

Like mentioned in the other thread, I'd try the R7 tune first that didn't have any STKR, then your modified R7. The only change I'd make is higher octane fuel. You need to eliminate the knock variables so throw some octane at it to know for sure. If modified R7 is good to go, step up to R8.

 

[fumanchu182]

I did the most patriotic thing I could do on 9/11. Race my fucking ass off as we fight for this freedom, might as well use it.



So I think the racing season is done for me. I tried my hand at the track again and I cannot get the car to be cool during a run. Unfortunately the format on how the track is run doesn't allow me to be at the front or in a position to where the car will be cool while running. So after analyzing the data from the last time I ran and the data from this time it is the heat in the top of fifth gear that is pull timing and adding severe knock. I think there is a combination of fuel and temps and I am unable to fight those right now. The fuel I run is Sunoco GT 260 either plus or regular. I get this from my local distributor or Maryland International Raceway pumps. It is 104 and I mix that with 93. I tried to get the car as close as possible to the 1/4 mark. Unfortunately @Speedy! if I try and go lower, that is a danger zone for dual fuel pumps as they can get hot and burnout, or worse suck in air. So it was 93 and 104 mix at 1:1 at half a tank. First run I tried to use the full spark, just wasn't having it. Went back to "R7" and the car ran fine, no spark reduction. So looking at the logs I decided to go back to R7 as a base and add timing up until where in fifth gear it was Aircharge (g) vs RPM where it was knocking. Low and behold it still got to 150 IAT and pulled timing but not as much as it happened later in the RPM range in fifth. So good news, still sent a ZL1 to the shadow zone.

Bad news, other than bracket racing with my R7 tune I'm done for now till the weather gets extremely cold, no more pushing for a 9s run, kinda feel defeated. @Mean Cat has been very helpful in researching cooling products and I reached out to @TrekGTO and am waiting for instructions on how to submit payment for the 19" race edition with HX bypass, flip a switch and it's go time. But there is a positive side to this, I will now be removing all IAT variances and can maximize on a 93 tune. @Hpindy and @moparjim (as well as @Speedy! ) were both influential on the 2.62 vs 3.09 and going back to a 305/45/17 was the correct move. 1.49 60' with room for improvements.

It was a good learning experience and I learned what the hot deadband is used for plus the 32* variance, how the tables interact to pull timing and how the WOT spark table is used. I thought about moving the temperatures out of the way but imo it is just too hot even for 93+104 and tbh I'm tired of buying 104. For the amount of money I spent on 104 (it's 15.00 a gallon in containers or 10.00 at the track) this summer I could have paid for an E85 tune as I already have all the required setup. Once the interchiller is installed (mid october) I will run out the season and think about E85 for next year now that temps are no longer a thing. Attached are my logs.

 

[Hpindy]

I did the most patriotic thing I could do on 9/11. Race my fucking ass off as we fight for this freedom, might as well use it.

View attachment 53431

So I think the racing season is done for me. I tried my hand at the track again and I cannot get the car to be cool during a run. Unfortunately the format on how the track is run doesn't allow me to be at the front or in a position to where the car will be cool while running. So after analyzing the data from the last time I ran and the data from this time it is the heat in the top of fifth gear that is pull timing and adding severe knock. I think there is a combination of fuel and temps and I am unable to fight those right now. The fuel I run is Sunoco GT 260 either plus or regular. I get this from my local distributor or Maryland International Raceway pumps. It is 104 and I mix that with 93. I tried to get the car as close as possible to the 1/4 mark. Unfortunately @Speedy! if I try and go lower, that is a danger zone for dual fuel pumps as they can get hot and burnout, or worse suck in air. So it was 93 and 104 mix at 1:1 at half a tank. First run I tried to use the full spark, just wasn't having it. Went back to "R7" and the car ran fine, no spark reduction. So looking at the logs I decided to go back to R7 as a base and add timing up until where in fifth gear it was Aircharge (g) vs RPM where it was knocking. Low and behold it still got to 150 IAT and pulled timing but not as much as it happened later in the RPM range in fifth. So good news, still sent a ZL1 to the shadow zone.

Bad news, other than bracket racing with my R7 tune I'm done for now till the weather gets extremely cold, no more pushing for a 9s run, kinda feel defeated. @Mean Cat has been very helpful in researching cooling products and I reached out to @TrekGTO and am waiting for instructions on how to submit payment for the 19" race edition with HX bypass, flip a switch and it's go time. But there is a positive side to this, I will now be removing all IAT variances and can maximize on a 93 tune. @Hpindy and @moparjim (as well as @Speedy! ) were both influential on the 2.62 vs 3.09 and going back to a 305/45/17 was the correct move. 1.49 60' with room for improvements.

It was a good learning experience and I learned what the hot deadband is used for plus the 32* variance, how the tables interact to pull timing and how the WOT spark table is used. I thought about moving the temperatures out of the way but imo it is just too hot even for 93+104 and tbh I'm tired of buying 104. For the amount of money I spent on 104 (it's 15.00 a gallon in containers or 10.00 at the track) this summer I could have paid for an E85 tune as I already have all the required setup. Once the interchiller is installed (mid october) I will run out the season and think about E85 for next year now that temps are no longer a thing. Attached are my logs.

Good stuff . It's a learning curve for sure . I struggled at the beginning too . The heat is a killer for us . I have a friend with a redeye and he did an experiment with the factory chiller . On the same day the chiller would allow him to run 1.5 degrees more timing VS no chiller . So yes they work . The fall will give you better results .

Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[Mean Cat]

I did the most patriotic thing I could do on 9/11. Race my fucking ass off as we fight for this freedom, might as well use it.

View attachment 53431

So I think the racing season is done for me. I tried my hand at the track again and I cannot get the car to be cool during a run. Unfortunately the format on how the track is run doesn't allow me to be at the front or in a position to where the car will be cool while running. So after analyzing the data from the last time I ran and the data from this time it is the heat in the top of fifth gear that is pull timing and adding severe knock. I think there is a combination of fuel and temps and I am unable to fight those right now. The fuel I run is Sunoco GT 260 either plus or regular. I get this from my local distributor or Maryland International Raceway pumps. It is 104 and I mix that with 93. I tried to get the car as close as possible to the 1/4 mark. Unfortunately @Speedy! if I try and go lower, that is a danger zone for dual fuel pumps as they can get hot and burnout, or worse suck in air. So it was 93 and 104 mix at 1:1 at half a tank. First run I tried to use the full spark, just wasn't having it. Went back to "R7" and the car ran fine, no spark reduction. So looking at the logs I decided to go back to R7 as a base and add timing up until where in fifth gear it was Aircharge (g) vs RPM where it was knocking. Low and behold it still got to 150 IAT and pulled timing but not as much as it happened later in the RPM range in fifth. So good news, still sent a ZL1 to the shadow zone.

Bad news, other than bracket racing with my R7 tune I'm done for now till the weather gets extremely cold, no more pushing for a 9s run, kinda feel defeated. @Mean Cat has been very helpful in researching cooling products and I reached out to @TrekGTO and am waiting for instructions on how to submit payment for the 19" race edition with HX bypass, flip a switch and it's go time. But there is a positive side to this, I will now be removing all IAT variances and can maximize on a 93 tune. @Hpindy and @moparjim (as well as @Speedy! ) were both influential on the 2.62 vs 3.09 and going back to a 305/45/17 was the correct move. 1.49 60' with room for improvements.

It was a good learning experience and I learned what the hot deadband is used for plus the 32* variance, how the tables interact to pull timing and how the WOT spark table is used. I thought about moving the temperatures out of the way but imo it is just too hot even for 93+104 and tbh I'm tired of buying 104. For the amount of money I spent on 104 (it's 15.00 a gallon in containers or 10.00 at the track) this summer I could have paid for an E85 tune as I already have all the required setup. Once the interchiller is installed (mid october) I will run out the season and think about E85 for next year now that temps are no longer a thing. Attached are my logs.

Nice vid, congrats on the 1.49, so your on the 305 now & what was DA ?

I went to HRP friday night with 2000 > 1500 DA, I had 3 - 1.47's & a 1.46 60'.
The track was kickin.

 

[fumanchu182]

Nice vid, congrats on the 1.49, so your on the 305 now & what was DA ?

I went to HRP friday night with 2000 > 1500 DA, I had 3 - 1.47's & a 1.46 60'.
The track was kickin.

DA wasnt bad at all, however thats relative.

 

[Mean Cat]

DA wasnt bad at all, however thats relative.

View attachment 53435 View attachment 53437 View attachment 53438

About the same as we had here.

 

[moparjim]

Sorry to hear you can't find a way to remedy the situation at the moment.
The cool air is coming and that should help.
I get the frustration though as I was going crazy last year trying to figure out wth was going on with my car.
If it helps make you feel better ms109 is $185 + 14.975% tax here for 5 gals.
This may help many figure out why my car has stayed stock so long. 😂
I too will be looking at a flex tune as E98 is 135 plus tax for 15 gallons. It is also easier for me to get.
Let us know how you do once it gets cooler as that should help quite a bit with your issue.
Cheers

 

[jonx96]

I’m sure beating the zl1 made you feel better.
We had a zl1 out 2 weeks ago on bead locks and full drag pack. The guys next to me in a whipple mustang I was talking to about what we both had done asked the zl1 guy what he had done. He wouldn’t tell them like he had something special. I raced the zl1 for my last race of the night and I think he only ran a 10.7. I put car lengths on him 😂 good times.

 

[Speedy!]

Man I hope running the tank down low doesn't hurt the pumps. I've run mine completely out of fuel more than once on my way to the track. I had to coast to the side of the hwy and drop in 5 gal of race fuel.

Looking at your data logs, it appears that something starts making Knock Sensor 2 unhappy. That one is on the passenger side I believe. Knock sensor 1 is barely showing any volts, and Knock Sensor two is like 2V+.

 

[Hickster]

When we were talking about cooling products... I thought about the HX bypass. I didn't know if it would bring the tempt down enough. Let me know if you go that way. Alot less expensive// Alot less work. Good deal.

 

[Mean Cat]

@fumanchu182, you said you can't get it cooled down enough, iat at 150*, do you have a Burnbox ?
that would help to cool down between rounds or as you pull up for a pass. Is it idling too long b4 a pass, heat soak, do you start the car & more up, then kill it, all the way up till it's your turn ?


the chiller will help when it's cold outside but helps most when it's warmer or hot outside, to be more consistent between cold & hot temps. So not a cure all for just when it's colder outside.

Wonder if you have a bad knock sensor ?...with 1 showing 0v & the other showing 2v that @Speedy! said.... a buddy of mine had to replace one that was bad.

 

[Hickster]

The HX works as a short term, what it is , an heat exchanger. Reverse cycle for a shot time. I was looking into MeanCat, sumtin that could produce thru testing, start up, and staging. This could work on the race time itself. 6 of 1 1/2 dozen of em all. But, I guess the chiller worked as per specs. I don't know if it ever came around to use. But instead of reinventing the wheel. Take the installed a/c unit and use that towards the chiller. All Chevy does is add another cooling component, HX, to draw hot fluids thru. The Copa Camero has 6 cooling tanks.

 

[fumanchu182]

Man I hope running the tank down low doesn't hurt the pumps. I've run mine completely out of fuel more than once on my way to the track. I had to coast to the side of the hwy and drop in 5 gal of race fuel.

Looking at your data logs, it appears that something starts making Knock Sensor 2 unhappy. That one is on the passenger side I believe. Knock sensor 1 is barely showing any volts, and Knock Sensor two is like 2V+.

Yeah I've been under the car left and right, nothing is near the sensor, nothing is mechanically loose. How can you tell if the knock sensor has gone bad? With the dual pump setup, there is no basket, so a quarter tank might as well be empty. The sock does some work but not enough. So there is temperature and sucking air to fight.

When we were talking about cooling products... I thought about the HX bypass. I didn't know if it would bring the tempt down enough. Let me know if you go that way. Alot less expensive// Alot less work. Good deal.

I am going that way with the HX bypass, I want a switch to flip when in race mode so I don't have to run the AC.

@fumanchu182, you said you can't get it cooled down enough, iat at 150*, do you have a Burnbox ?
that would help to cool down between rounds or as you pull up for a pass. Is it idling too long b4 a pass, heat soak, do you start the car & more up, then kill it, all the way up till it's your turn ?


the chiller will help when it's cold outside but helps most when it's warmer or hot outside, to be more consistent between cold & hot temps. So not a cure all for just when it's colder outside.

Wonder if you have a bad knock sensor ?...with 1 showing 0v & the other showing 2v that @Speedy! said.... a buddy of mine had to replace one that was bad.

I use cooldown mode with the Tazer and have fans. Still because of the way any track in Maryland works, you idle for a long time. Also even in the Summer every track is packed. How can you tell if you have a bad sensor?

I'm done till the chiller comes in, in the meantime I'm going to do a compresson test and make sure the engine is still healthy.

 

[Hickster]

Remember the HX heat exchanger will work for a short period of time. They will tell ya what to expect. Running the a/c will only hurt you by 8 to 10 hp. You can cut it off at the start and still have that hp. 9.6 seconds later,,, turn it back on.

 

[fumanchu182]

Remember the HX heat exchanger will work for a short period of time. They will tell ya what to expect. Running the a/c will only hurt you by 8 to 10 hp. You can cut it off at the start and still have that hp. 9.6 seconds later,,, turn it back on.

Running the AC can also get you kicked off the track. If you are dripling water from the HX they wont let you make a pass hence the bypass.

 

[Speedy!]

These cars cut A/C at WOT, but yeah the condensation is a no no on the track.

 

[Hickster]

Dependon the tempt, insulation of the refrig tubing, and redirect the moisture, if any, to am other resivor. I do it at home. Redirect my condensate from the a/c to a rain barrel on a pump and feeds my plants and lawn. Different ways of looking at this but it works. If you build your tempt to where you need it before staging, then you are there. I do understand the moisture problem. I have been employed all my life in Florida to fight moisture, in many ways. This is another concept. I have 3 other ideas that includes moisture control and HP//// I have been going to the track before a/c in cars at the track.

 

[zhc]

Running the AC can also get you kicked off the track. If you are dripling water from the HX they wont let you make a pass hence the bypass.

I am going that way with the HX bypass, I want a switch to flip when in race mode so I don't have to run the AC.

I think you misunderstand the purpose of various bypasses that come with these chiller systems.

The first type of bypass blocks the flow of freon going to (or from) the factory evap core. This does two things. One, all of the freon will be dedicated to the chiller core which generally makes it more effective. Two, the major source of water when the A/C is running is from the factory evap core condensing water from air. By blocking flow to the factory evap core, it will no longer do that. You will still get condensation though, but it generally won't be from any of the a/c components nor will it be from the chiller because that unit comes insulated by all three major manufacturers of chiller units. Condensation will be from the coolant lines getting cold and condensing against the air, worst when dew point (humidity) is high. You can mitigate this by insulating all your coolant lines as well as parts of the a/c suction line as this can get cold as well. Note, the same thing happens with ice tanks. It's like pulling a cold soda can out of the fridge and leaving it outside.

The 2nd type of bypass is one that can divert flow around the factory heat exchangers. The reason why you would want to bypass the factory heat exchangers is a chiller can chill the coolant down well below ambient. When that happens, the factory HX work against it by introducing heat back into the fluid from ambient air. It becomes a reverse heat exchanger at that point.

In either case, the A/C has to be running pretty much 100% of the time for the chiller to do its thing while you're in the staging lanes waiting your turn. If it's all setup right, it won't drip on the track. I know I don't and I've been using a chiller or two for several years and have never had an issue with water on the track. However, I wouldn't go around telling everyone you're running your a/c for a chiller. They probably won't understand which can lead to complications with track officials.

 

[Hickster]

Very well put. Unless you are a 30 year chiller man e ack. Have done too much in two many situations. This one is very simple. Staging area is where this needs to happen. Like above,,, I would not discuss this with any one cause they are going to cry fowl ball. What they don't understand, they think to their demise.

 

[Hickster]

Zhc,
You speak of ice tanks. I have been instrumental in engineering, design build, and installation of a many of ones in Florida. These were under the contract of the Trane Co, York International, and McQuay. I sold installed and warranted the 1st 5 McQuay chiller magnetic installed chillers in E USA. They are still going. This info with these temps of the engines and able to produce more HP is interesting. Great to hear back from sum one that does not think I am from Weed Land. Nope,, too much R22.
We don't build ice plants any moe. The power companies took the off line power bonus away cause people like you and I got too far a head of em. Not that they were loosing$$$ but not making enough. Refreshing.