dual fuel pumps for e85

[BULL]

@Tapped Performance


And like magic, there they are...

 

[Speedy!]

I'm fairly certain nothing has to be cut or hacked up. It has factory connection style to the factory fuel line, the filter itself is AN. Filter is serviceable and is a steel mesh if memory serves. It mounts to the car with a couple self tappers.

 

[BULL]

I'm fairly certain nothing has to be cut or hacked up. It has factory connection style to the factory fuel line, the filter itself is AN. Filter is serviceable and is a steel mesh if memory serves. It mounts to the car with a couple self tappers.

Makes sense, but the thing that isn't obvious is that if you have an existing line set, and you're adding a large fuel filter (and fittings) that something has to change and get removed.

It would make sense that there's a section of the original line set that gets removed??? Do you have to bend any of the original lines to allow for the new fittings/connections to happen?

 

[Speedy!]

Nope. It all lines up.

 

[covidcommander]

Not invasive at all, sorry to take so long, busy day at work today with real work I’m paid to do lol
Hope you guys can make heads and tails out of these pics.

View attachment 67716 View attachment 67717 View attachment 67718 View attachment 67719

What kinda work? 🤔

 

[covidcommander]

@Tapped Performance


And like magic, there they are...

Where?

 

[BULL]

Where?

The account (it exists, they had just joined)

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

What kinda work? 🤔

It’s not bad if you follow the instructions and just drill two sheet metal screw holes to hold the filter bracket it goes on pretty quick. me like everything I do I made a project out of it because I wanted it high and up out of-of-the-way and I used blind rivets with threads in them into the body and sealed them so no rust or anything would happen just from the sheet metal screw through the body. And it’s all plug and play you don’t have to cut any of the factory fuel lines you can go back to no filter in minutes really.

 

[Speedy!]

It’s not bad if you follow the instructions and just drill two sheet metal screw holes to hold the filter bracket it goes on pretty quick. me like everything I do I made a project out of it because I wanted it high and up out of-of-the-way and I used blind rivets with threads in them into the body and sealed them so no rust or anything would happen just from the sheet metal screw through the body. And it’s all plug and play you don’t have to cut any of the factory fuel lines you can go back to no filter in minutes really.

That's how I'd do it as well. Makes it serviceable.

 

[Tapped Performance]

Hello everyone, not really an official introduction but wanted to get in here and help as much as we could and we have noticed this group for quite some time as a good source of traffic flow to the website, so thank you to everyone for that.

Not to sure where to start on any specific questions, but as BULL asked in email, we can touch on the subject of basket versus no basket. This is something we have done research on based on public opinion and we have developed basket style systems but on the cars we found it to not really be that beneficial. Our Ram systems we are about to release do have a basket mainly because the tanks are so large and open they almost require it. There is two drawbacks, heat and believe it or not, starvation. We have had plenty of Hellcats, Demons and so on with mild mods, mild enough to be using the stock pump assemblies and while low on fuel ran out of fuel shortly after launch. Well why is that? Because with a low tank level (and we are talking 1/4) the basket is not full, nothing is coming from the jet pump as the passenger side has been dry since 1/2 tank, so at launch the little fuel in the tank has moved away from the basket and it can't pick up any fuel.

How much fuel can the basket hold even if it was full? If there is no fuel for it to pickup WOT fueling is about a second worth, and pressure is lost. WOT fueling demands on a stock Demon with dual pumps gives you about .7 seconds. Then we have guys ask us about a triple...in a basket? There's literally no room for fuel, and heat is an issue. Our thought, guys, you are talking 5 gallons of fuel fixes all your issues and increases pump life dramatically by keeping them submerged. We say 1/4 tank should be considered empty if you are on your way to the water box, they will suck the tank dry during normal driving, like just cruising down the highway. Many think a basket will solve all their issues but they really won't. I would guess many have drained their tanks, notice how much air is in the line, on the stock basket, from just under a 1/4 and lower? I'd rather add a couple gallons of fuel for WOT stuff.

Starvation. What have found through the development of the Ram systems, is when you have a couple of high power pumps pulling from a very small area, the valves available to pull off the flow demand can be daunting. With the Rams we have a height advantage, the cars we do not, it's a very small space to work with.

I am going to stop here as apparently there is Tornado's all around me and the power is flickering...

 

[BULL]

Hello everyone, not really an official introduction but wanted to get in here and help as much as we could and we have noticed this group for quite some time as a good source of traffic flow to the website, so thank you to everyone for that.

Not to sure where to start on any specific questions, but as BULL asked in email, we can touch on the subject of basket versus no basket. This is something we have done research on based on public opinion and we have developed basket style systems but on the cars we found it to not really be that beneficial. Our Ram systems we are about to release do have a basket mainly because the tanks are so large and open they almost require it. There is two drawbacks, heat and believe it or not, starvation. We have had plenty of Hellcats, Demons and so on with mild mods, mild enough to be using the stock pump assemblies and while low on fuel ran out of fuel shortly after launch. Well why is that? Because with a low tank level (and we are talking 1/4) the basket is not full, nothing is coming from the jet pump as the passenger side has been dry since 1/2 tank, so at launch the little fuel in the tank has moved away from the basket and it can't pick up any fuel.

How much fuel can the basket hold even if it was full? If there is no fuel for it to pickup WOT fueling is about a second worth, and pressure is lost. WOT fueling demands on a stock Demon with dual pumps gives you about .7 seconds. Then we have guys ask us about a triple...in a basket? There's literally no room for fuel, and heat is an issue. Our thought, guys, you are talking 5 gallons of fuel fixes all your issues and increases pump life dramatically by keeping them submerged. We say 1/4 tank should be considered empty if you are on your way to the water box, they will suck the tank dry during normal driving, like just cruising down the highway. Many think a basket will solve all their issues but they really won't. I would guess many have drained their tanks, notice how much air is in the line, on the stock basket, from just under a 1/4 and lower? I'd rather add a couple gallons of fuel for WOT stuff.

Starvation. What have found through the development of the Ram systems, is when you have a couple of high power pumps pulling from a very small area, the valves available to pull off the flow demand can be daunting. With the Rams we have a height advantage, the cars we do not, it's a very small space to work with.

I am going to stop here as apparently there is Tornado's all around me and the power is flickering...

Thanks much!

Great information and insight!

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Hello everyone, not really an official introduction but wanted to get in here and help as much as we could and we have noticed this group for quite some time as a good source of traffic flow to the website, so thank you to everyone for that.

Not to sure where to start on any specific questions, but as BULL asked in email, we can touch on the subject of basket versus no basket. This is something we have done research on based on public opinion and we have developed basket style systems but on the cars we found it to not really be that beneficial. Our Ram systems we are about to release do have a basket mainly because the tanks are so large and open they almost require it. There is two drawbacks, heat and believe it or not, starvation. We have had plenty of Hellcats, Demons and so on with mild mods, mild enough to be using the stock pump assemblies and while low on fuel ran out of fuel shortly after launch. Well why is that? Because with a low tank level (and we are talking 1/4) the basket is not full, nothing is coming from the jet pump as the passenger side has been dry since 1/2 tank, so at launch the little fuel in the tank has moved away from the basket and it can't pick up any fuel.

How much fuel can the basket hold even if it was full? If there is no fuel for it to pickup WOT fueling is about a second worth, and pressure is lost. WOT fueling demands on a stock Demon with dual pumps gives you about .7 seconds. Then we have guys ask us about a triple...in a basket? There's literally no room for fuel, and heat is an issue. Our thought, guys, you are talking 5 gallons of fuel fixes all your issues and increases pump life dramatically by keeping them submerged. We say 1/4 tank should be considered empty if you are on your way to the water box, they will suck the tank dry during normal driving, like just cruising down the highway. Many think a basket will solve all their issues but they really won't. I would guess many have drained their tanks, notice how much air is in the line, on the stock basket, from just under a 1/4 and lower? I'd rather add a couple gallons of fuel for WOT stuff.

Starvation. What have found through the development of the Ram systems, is when you have a couple of high power pumps pulling from a very small area, the valves available to pull off the flow demand can be daunting. With the Rams we have a height advantage, the cars we do not, it's a very small space to work with.

I am going to stop here as apparently there is Tornado's all around me and the power is flickering...

Hi Rick!!

It’s Mike, remember the custom harness you made me so I can try the SW system in my car easily switching between your system and it with twin 295’s? Well I haven’t tried it yet because what you described above has been my worry, will the basket stay full enough to feed twin 295’s when my twin 285’s are “Tapped” out at 6000 rpm during high boost and low DA and obviously moving allot of fuel. I guess the only way to know for sure is try them but I hate to starve my engine of fuel testing them. So I’m at a quagmire here and why it hasn’t been tried yet. So…. What to do???? Maybe my microglass filter downstream filter needs changed or the pump inlet filters of both?? Hope the tornado missed you. Good to see you on the forum!! We need a pro here on this subject!!! Looking forward to hearing your replies

 

[DavidKFla]

I've always get paranoid when my tank gets below half. Now I know that I can run down to a quarter tank.
Great information!

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

I've always get paranoid when my tank gets below half. Now I know that I can run down to a quarter tank.
Great information!

Just make sure 1/4 tank on the gauge is really 1/4 tank as in my car at 1/4 tank I can get 15–16 gallons of fuel in it so it’s more like 1/8!of a tank And I’ve had fuel starvation if I make a hit at quarter tank it has happened. I start being careful at 1/3 tank, which if I fill there get 12-13 gallons in. My gauge probably just needs to be re-scaled being that it isn’t the original fuel pick up in the tank, Just putting out some food for thought verify what your tank is by next Fill up from where the gauge is then you’ll know for sure

 

[BULL]

Another trick to the tanks in the Challenger (and Charger?)

If you fill them up on the first "slow" notch of the gas pump nozzle, you can get almost another gallon of gas into the tank!

(Compared with the 3rd, fastest, notch)

 

[Speedy!]

I never run mine hard belowb1/2. Have datalogs showing fuel pressure loss when I did.

 

[Tapped Performance]

Hi Rick!!

It’s Mike, remember the custom harness you made me so I can try the SW system in my car easily switching between your system and it with twin 295’s? Well I haven’t tried it yet because what you described above has been my worry, will the basket stay full enough to feed twin 295’s when my twin 285’s are “Tapped” out at 6000 rpm during high boost and low DA and obviously moving allot of fuel. I guess the only way to know for sure is try them but I hate to starve my engine of fuel testing them. So I’m at a quagmire here and why it hasn’t been tried yet. So…. What to do???? Maybe my microglass filter downstream filter needs changed or the pump inlet filters of both?? Hope the tornado missed you. Good to see you on the forum!! We need a pro here on this subject!!! Looking forward to hearing your replies

Hey! Yea everything just missed our home, but I had that reply typed out and about 2 minutes after posting the power went out! So I was glad I stopped

Yes, and as we talked my other concern was the factory connection on that setup, the amp load can be tremendous and that connector isn't really the best pick for the task, PWM and 295's will help, as they actually draw less amps than the 285, and as everyone may have noticed they use 2 power and ground wires for that single pump stock. The Hemi cars are plagued with that issue as well, burning up the stock hat connector, then guys think it's a good idea to plumb in a 285 which really speeds up the process because they run at full speed-no PWM, and the system design overruns stock regulator, so head pressure ends up in the 80 psi range, with around 75psi at rail. So 2 things happen, the pump flow rate is down (see any flow sheet of what the pump is doing at 80+ psi), and a lot of heat buildup.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

I never run mine hard belowb1/2. Have datalogs showing fuel pressure loss when I did.

I’ll look at the data log with a full tank and see if I see a pressure difference as I was probably down to about a third of a tank when I saw this last low point of 72 psi at 80 psi commanded and 89% duty cycle on the pump, we’ll see what it looks like with a full tank next hit 👍

 

[BULL]

I got confirmation from @Tapped Performance

Use "hcf.org" at checkout for a free unlock

(Quoted from a PM with me and me asking about a free unlock)

We have done this in the past, thought about running some specials this spring,... ...But because I fell this group is just awesome, I set up a code, enter "hfc.org" in the checkout, and with any of our Hellcat fuel systems, with any combo of options, buy it and get a free unlock! We will run this special until May 31st.

Just so everyone is clear how we will do this, as fuel systems are usually a little behind, you can send us your PCM, we will unlock and return right away. Some may get lucky and send PCM, and get right back with fuel system, just depends on order load we have here.

 

[fubar569]

At the time I purchased mine the only realistic option was the Injected Engineering dual pump kit. Twin 285's on the fore hat, extra FPCM and some minor splicing (not bad). OST did that install for me and it came out perfect.

So far we laid down just over 900whp on Allpar's mustang dyno with that system, FIC1200's, 2.50, ported blower and typical compliments on E85. I would say I am dangerously close to the limit however. I don't see more than 85% DC or more than a couple PSI drop but it's RIGHT THERE if I add too much more power.

Been a damn solid setup for 2 years though.

If I do another one...Tapp gets my vote.