Catch Can; how is yours?

[jroyk]

The way I look at it is if the filter goes into bypass, the engine needs that oil. With the SRT, the bypass is in the dome end. The bypassed oil will wash over the dirty side of the filter media before returning. With the MO-899, the bypass is on the base end. The bypassed oil will just be recirculated oil that was filtered until the time of bypass.
None of this matters if oil and filter is changed regularly.

 

[EricG]

True, and after being on Mopar and SRT-related forums since 2006 I have never read one post about an engine failure related to oil temp/fatigue/dirt being the cause. I over change mine based on factory recommended intervals. Guys at the dealership may make fun of me for it…whatever, it’s my car. 13k miles and 6 oil changes so far. I insist on SRT filters. Drive her like the General Lee except for the jumps….well most of the time anyway

 

[coolblue]

I never ran the SRT filter again after @BULL alerted the forum to the almost completely closed slits inside the filter can that house the filter media. My RE came with the MO899 stock. I only use that or the WIX 57899, both have nice big round feed holes inside. The RE has has higher oil flow rate than standard Hellcats (100% more to the oil squirters so I've read) so I'd rather have the flow rate capacity. I also run a huge FilterMag on my filter. I'm a believer in these. You literally can't pull it off the can it has so much magnetic force, you have to slide it off, then remove the filter when doing oil changes. Two other things of note:
1) The RE oil pressure, although more flow keeps the cold start pressure around 65 and running temp around 35/40. My 2009 6.1 SRT would go 80/81psi !! on cold startup and running temp around 26/30 with less flow capacity.
2) Most people (I would hope) aren't going all out until engine reaches full temp or almost full temp so oil is ,by then, thinned out and flowing 'like water' and the high pressure spring feature isn't that much of a factor.

 

[EricG]

I never ran the SRT filter again after @BULL alerted the forum to the almost completely closed slits inside the filter can that house the filter media. My RE came with the MO899 stock. I only use that or the WIX 57899, both have nice big round feed holes inside. The RE has has higher oil flow rate than standard Hellcats (100% more to the oil squirters so I've read) so I'd rather have the flow rate capacity. I also run a huge FilterMag on my filter. I'm a believer in these. You literally can't pull it off the can it has so much magnetic force, you have to slide it off, then remove the filter when doing oil changes. Two other things of note:
1) The RE oil pressure, although more flow keeps the cold start pressure around 65 and running temp around 35/40. My 2009 6.1 SRT would go 80/81psi !! on cold startup and running temp around 26/30 with less flow capacity.
2) Most people (I would hope) aren't going all out until engine reaches full temp or almost full temp so oil is ,by then, thinned out and flowing 'like water' and the high pressure spring feature isn't that much of a factor.

Good points, it’s hard to know how the filter actually performs under load, but this specific filter comes straight from SRT and only exists under their guidance and insistence so I trust it. Maybe blindly…

Also for the drag racers, many passes(at least the first of a set of 2-3 passes) are done at oil temps 150-170 with the engine just coming up and from back in the 6.1 days when the SRT engineers used to engage in online chats they said try not to race until the oil is at least at 170, I’d be interested to see what other hard core drag racers race at for temps if you all want to chime in. I know it’s always a compromise when it comes to all out performance vs longevity.

Good thoughts on the magnets, I should suck it up and get one. Thought about it before. I just overcharge it for cheaper insurance but the magnet is that and more. I only get one more free oil change under my service/warranty plan before I need to think about it more. What mile/times do you do for oil change intervals?

 

[coolblue]

Good points, it’s hard to know how the filter actually performs under load, but this specific filter comes straight from SRT and only exists under their guidance and insistence so I trust it. Maybe blindly…

Also for the drag racers, many passes(at least the first of a set of 2-3 passes) are done at oil temps 150-170 with the engine just coming up and from back in the 6.1 days when the SRT engineers used to engage in online chats they said try not to race until the oil is at least at 170, I’d be interested to see what other hard core drag racers race at for temps if you all want to chime in. I know it’s always a compromise when it comes to all out performance vs longevity.

Good thoughts on the magnets, I should suck it up and get one. Thought about it before. I just overcharge it for cheaper insurance but the magnet is that and more. I only get one more free oil change under my service/warranty plan before I need to think about it more. What mile/times do you do for oil change intervals?

I generally do oil changes every 3000/3500 miles. I do the change then write the mileage down on a piece of paper I keep in the glove compartment. Some guys do the oil change every 6mo. whether they have 5 miles or 5000miles. They think oil goes bad like gas. I'm not in that camp. I do mileage (again 3/3.5K) more commonly. As long as you get the car up to temp every time you run it, all water and contaminants generally burn off. I will also say if I don't put the mileage on the car (meaning if I put less than 3/3.5K on in a year), I won't go over a year (generally summer to summer) without an oil change.
Never been down a sanctioned drag strip, but if I did a full day of dedicated hard runs on her I'd probably change it.

 

[68coronet]

As far as engine failures are concerned, examples can be viewed on several YT clips. If metal shavings are found in the oil control valve (6.4 HEMI only), MOPAR says that the engine must be replaced. Apparently, these particles can be cleared from the 5.7 HEMI - no engine replacement required. This is why I will never purchase a used 6.4 HEMI, nor will I purchase a new one that's been test driven off the lot. OCD, that's me!

Question: If the 6.4 HEMI runs tighter tolerances, wouldn't you want to run a thinner oil than 0W-40?

 

[Prange]

As far as engine failures are concerned, examples can be viewed on several YT clips. If metal shavings are found in the oil control valve (6.4 HEMI only), MOPAR says that the engine must be replaced. Apparently, these particles can be cleared from the 5.7 HEMI - no engine replacement required. This is why I will never purchase a used 6.4 HEMI, nor will I purchase a new one that's been test driven off the lot. OCD, that's me!

Question: If the 6.4 HEMI runs tighter tolerances, wouldn't you want to run a thinner oil than 0W-40?

Thanks for the video.

I bought the 7/100k Max Care for mine. Labor sure adds up at 140.00/hour.

 

[EricG]

As far as engine failures are concerned, examples can be viewed on several YT clips. If metal shavings are found in the oil control valve (6.4 HEMI only), MOPAR says that the engine must be replaced. Apparently, these particles can be cleared from the 5.7 HEMI - no engine replacement required. This is why I will never purchase a used 6.4 HEMI, nor will I purchase a new one that's been test driven off the lot. OCD, that's me!

Question: If the 6.4 HEMI runs tighter tolerances, wouldn't you want to run a thinner oil than 0W-40?

While I'm not questioning that there have been some engine failures, I think we have to agree that it's due to faulty lifter design and not the oil's ability to do it's lubricating job, it's not due to to any type/brand of oil, and it's not due to oil change intervals.

As far as the 6.4/392, I've owned two of them and think they are great motors. It has so many upgrades over the 5.7 - in fact it's one of the strongest regular production N/A V8s ever produced. It's like a built old school 440, tons of torque, tons of pull up top. Loud and strong. The 5.7 is known to be a much "tickier" motor and there are a ton of similar lifter failure/wipe out the cam lobes failures on them too.

 

[68coronet]

While I'm not questioning that there have been some engine failures, I think we have to agree that it's due to faulty lifter design and not the oil's ability to do it's lubricating job, it's not due to to any type/brand of oil, and it's not due to oil change intervals.

As far as the 6.4/392, I've owned two of them and think they are great motors. It has so many upgrades over the 5.7 - in fact it's one of the strongest regular production N/A V8s ever produced. It's like a built old school 440, tons of torque, tons of pull up top. Loud and strong. The 5.7 is known to be a much "tickier" motor and there are a ton of similar lifter failure/wipe out the cam lobes failures on them too.

The vast majority of cam/lifter failures in the 5.7 come from fleet vehicles with 100K+ miles. The 5.7 also outnumbers the 6.4 by a huge margin. There is nothing "wrong" with the design of the engine components. Materials and hardening on the other hand, may be an issue. Like I said, the majority of failures are seen on high mileage engines. Early failures are likely the result of operator error. Not letting the oil reach peak operating temperature before racking the engine is one. Running the wrong viscosity is another. I'll have to disagree on the type of oil. Running conventional oil in a Gen III HEMI would not be wise, especially in a 6.4 HEMI. Oh, you can do it... but, start racking that engine and you're going to cook the crank bearings. Oil brands can be an issue, as some do not contain enough "slippery" additives. Again, this would be of more concern with the 6.4 HEMI. By example, modern Harley Davidson engines run tighter tolerances compared to most big-twin engines. Oil weight and type are critical to proper performance and longevity. I've built/rebuilt enough of them to know. Tighter the tolerances = increased heat. If there is a wrench in the works, it is surely the EPA. VVT, catalytic converters, 203 degree thermostat, 215+ degree fan setting...

Note: Issues regarding supercharged engines; I am not familiar with. One day, maybe.

 

[Prange]

The vast majority of cam/lifter failures in the 5.7 come from fleet vehicles with 100K+ miles. The 5.7 also outnumbers the 6.4 by a huge margin. There is nothing "wrong" with the design of the engine components. Materials and hardening on the other hand, may be an issue. Like I said, the majority of failures are seen on high mileage engines. Early failures are likely the result of operator error. Not letting the oil reach peak operating temperature before racking the engine is one. Running the wrong viscosity is another. I'll have to disagree on the type of oil. Running conventional oil in a Gen III HEMI would not be wise, especially in a 6.4 HEMI. Oh, you can do it... but, start racking that engine and you're going to cook the crank bearings. Oil brands can be an issue, as some do not contain enough "slippery" additives. Again, this would be of more concern with the 6.4 HEMI. By example, modern Harley Davidson engines run tighter tolerances compared to most big-twin engines. Oil weight and type are critical to proper performance and longevity. I've built/rebuilt enough of them to know. Tighter the tolerances = increased heat. If there is a wrench in the works, it is surely the EPA. VVT, catalytic converters, 203 degree thermostat, 215+ degree fan setting...

Note: Issues regarding supercharged engines; I am not familiar with. One day, maybe.

Is that because the fleet cars idle more than a regular-use car? (Police cars and such).

 

[68coronet]

Is that because the fleet cars idle more than a regular-use car? (Police cars and such).

Exactly. HEMI engines (IMO) idle at too low an RPM. Raising the idle speed to 750 RPM (or higher) would help throw more oil. Also... I don't think MDS has anything to do with lifter/cam failure.

 

[Illegal_Demon]

I have a 2015 and mine has collected very, very small amounts of oil. Honestly I don't think it was worth the investment. I was just sick and tired of people freaking out when I'd open my hood and all I'd hear is..."Dude you better get a catch can!" "What no catch can, you are nuts"...etc...

So yea I got a freaking catch can, so shut yer piehole.

I put more value on the fact I don't have to hear people griping about me not having the stupid thing, over what actual value it has on the engine's life.

Zero catch can on my Demon. And nope, no plans to add one. If Dodge/SRT enginneers are ok without it, I am too.

 

[BULL]

Zero catch can on my Demon. And nope, no plans to add one. If Dodge/SRT enginneers are ok without it, I am too.

I've said this before, I personally know one of them that was on the Demon development team/SRT.

He runs one on his. While I'm sure it's not the only reason he has, one statement was a desire to reduce oil vapor back into the combustion chamber which reduces overall octane, increases knock and reduces power.

.02

 

[coolblue]

I've said this before, I personally know one of them that was on the Demon development team/SRT.

He runs one on his. While I'm sure it's not the only reason he has, one statement was a desire to reduce oil vapor back into the combustion chamber which reduces overall octane, increases knock and reduces power.

.02

Everything is also done on a $cost basis within the big picture of production to a corp. Even 3000 is a 'large' number when multiplied by $100 or whatever they would pay for a large production for a 'really not necessary' piece according to the bean counters. Imagine if they applied it to all Challengers.
I also remember reading someone on the Hellcat/SRT team told the exec's the Hellcat could really use a 95MM throttle body and was told no because of cost and they had to make do with the 92MM.

 

[Prange]

After going back and forth on this in my tiny brain, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a JLT can.

 

[jroyk]

After going back and forth on this in my tiny brain, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a JLT can.

It all comes down to it can’t hurt, doesn’t cost a lot, and could help. I believe it does help for the reasons Bull stated.

 

[Hunter]

After going back and forth on this in my tiny brain, I went ahead and pulled the trigger on a JLT can.

Now to stir the "Catch-Can" pot...
Passenger AND driver side, or just passenger side?

 

[DGatzby]

Now to stir the "Catch-Can" pot...
Passenger AND driver side, or just passenger side?

Stir it up. Hellcat, Hellcat V2, or 6.4L.

 

[Prange]

Now to stir the "Catch-Can" pot...
Passenger AND driver side, or just passenger side?

Passenger side only, 6.4L.

 

[68coronet]

I would think a catch-can would help extend the life of the cats.