E85 questions

[ncrowe]

It would seem that there are finally several stations reasonably close to me that now have E85 pumps.
So I am seriously considering doing the E85 switch at the end of the year.
So add set of ID1300 injectors to the engine and a tune.
Here's my question. All else being equal (no changes except for the larger injectors and tune), what kind of power increase am I looking at?

All else being equal - a good tuner will net you 8-10% increase in HP

 

[TMAC]

All else being equal - a good tuner will net you 8-10% increase in HP

Not a bad increase. We figure it's going to make around 800 on the tire when tuned on 91, with the Boostane and meth injection. People have suggested it should be more, but I'm insisting on a conservative tune. To me, its not worth risking everything for another 30 or so HP. I talked to my tuner yesterday about the E54 vs E85 thing, and will continue to pursue this.

I've seen the term flex tune used. Does this mean that a single tune can adjust for varying levels of ethanol?

 

[AlleyCat]

At Dyno now. After two hours of driving it did 929/975. It pulled timing. Iats hot .Lots of torque.

 

[AlleyCat]

A little cool down with e85. 955/1010

 

[MaxCarnage]

I've seen the term flex tune used. Does this mean that a single tune can adjust for varying levels of ethanol?

Yes from my understanding a true flex tune means you can toss any variation of ethanol in the tank and the tune will adjust as needed using the wideband sensors. HP tuners can see the alcohol content as well. I don't have any first hand experience of this, but this is what others have said.

However, the flex tune might not be as aggressive of a tune as a straight E85 tune would be (unsure on that), assuming both have E85. Not sure if the flex leaves more safety in the tune or not. Maybe someone can chime in on that.

 

[Blkout]

Not a bad increase. We figure it's going to make around 800 on the tire when tuned on 91, with the Boostane and meth injection. People have suggested it should be more, but I'm insisting on a conservative tune. To me, its not worth risking everything for another 30 or so HP. I talked to my tuner yesterday about the E54 vs E85 thing, and will continue to pursue this.

I've seen the term flex tune used. Does this mean that a single tune can adjust for varying levels of ethanol?

Correct, with caveat that there's a limit to how much a flex tune can do to keep the engine safe. It cant overcome 17psi+ boost and even 16psi is on the edge but if you're running a pulley no smaller than 2.75 but preferably a 2.85, the tune will allow you to run any fuel you want and it will adjust accordingly. When you start getting to boost of 16psi+, there's only so much the tune can do to keep the car safe on 93 octane. When you start pushing boost in the 16psi+ range it really demands that you use better fuel than 93 octane.

 

[Blkout]

Yes from my understanding a true flex tune means you can toss any variation of ethanol in the tank and the tune will adjust as needed using the wideband sensors. HP tuners can see the alcohol content as well. I don't have any first hand experience of this, but this is what others have said.

However, the flex tune might not be as aggressive of a tune as a straight E85 tune would be (unsure on that), assuming both have E85. Not sure if the flex leaves more safety in the tune or not. Maybe someone can chime in on that.

So that depends, Curt can leave a safety margin in the flex tune for guys like me that don't check their E85, or you can ask for an aggressive tune that gives you everything that E85 can provide assuming you know the quality of your E85.

My car made 871whp SAE with a 2.65 pulley on a conservative flex tune on E85 so it's still a lot of power.

 

[Blkout]

A little cool down with e85. 955/1010

What pulley setup and A8 or M6? I see STD correction was used which is going to rate higher than SAE.

 

[AlleyCat]

A8- 2.5 pulley

 

[coolblue]

A8- 2.5 pulley

2.5 pulley. You spinni'n it bro.

 

[AlleyCat]

Lol. Only 15 pounds of boost. Stroker. Supercharger is too small. Horsepower starts dropping after 6200 rpm. Maybe it is spinning. As the torque was not a blip. It was a strong 1010 over a nice range.

 

[AlleyCat]

Lol. Only 15 pounds of boost. Stroker. Supercharger is too small. Horsepower starts dropping after 6200 rpm. Maybe it is spinning. As the torque was not a blip. It was a strong 1010 over a nice range.

Yeah spinning the supercharger. Lol.

 

[coolblue]

Lol. Only 15 pounds of boost. Stroker. Supercharger is too small. Horsepower starts dropping after 6200 rpm. Maybe it is spinning. As the torque was not a blip. It was a strong 1010 over a nice range.

Eh. 15lbs of boost that's acceptable. I'll let ya slide this time but try and get serious will ya'.

 

[AlleyCat]

Yes Sir! The most dangerous part of that Dyno was going home with the wife as she made me stop at the Phoenix mall.

 

[coolblue]

Yes Sir! The most dangerous part of that Dyno was going home with the wife as she made me stop at the Phoenix mall.

Oh I know that story. You got what u wanted now I'm gonna get what I want. LOL.

 

[AlleyCat]

Yep. She said I made you happy. Now it's time to make me happy. I think they are all trained by the same manual.

 

[Blkout]

Lol. Only 15 pounds of boost. Stroker. Supercharger is too small. Horsepower starts dropping after 6200 rpm. Maybe it is spinning. As the torque was not a blip. It was a strong 1010 over a nice range.

Ah ok, stroker and 2.50 pulley. That explains the 1010 torque, those extra cubes!

 

[MaxCarnage]

So that depends, Curt can leave a safety margin in the flex tune for guys like me that don't check their E85, or you can ask for an aggressive tune that gives you everything that E85 can provide assuming you know the quality of your E85.

My car made 871whp SAE with a 2.65 pulley on a conservative flex tune on E85 so it's still a lot of power.

My E85 source comes from a company that sells it in drums (Made from sugar). I was told if you measure it with an E85 tester it will measure around E89, but the guy said those testers are often off by a few percentage points. He said the best way to test E85 is by weight, but I don't know how to do that or what that even means, lol. They said their source of E85 is very consistent batch to batch. Lots of pure race cars run it. I'm considering a more aggressive tune because of it's consistency, but I would test every drum just in case. However, just not sure if the aggressive tune is worth the extra hp or piece of mind of a safe tune.

Just looking at an E85 conversion for my Redeye, on stock pulley. Thinking flex just in case so I can put some pump in it, but likely I would run E85 all year long (except winter when it's stored). It's only a weekend car so I can justify the mpg loss. All I really want is to run some 9s in great DA/low 10s in mediocre DA. I'll have to ask Curt what he charges for a re-tune just in case in the future I want more power, lol.

Thanks for the info though!

*Edit* Also I know others change their oil more often with E85. Is it still okay to wait 6 months between oil changes? Even if you only run maybe 1k miles in that time period? I've heard others shorten oil changes, but I've heard 3k miles. No mention about if they shorten the length from 6 months to 3 months or something like that.

 

[Blkout]

My E85 source comes from a company that sells it in drums (Made from sugar). I was told if you measure it with an E85 tester it will measure around E89, but the guy said those testers are often off by a few percentage points. He said the best way to test E85 is by weight, but I don't know how to do that or what that even means, lol. They said their source of E85 is very consistent batch to batch. Lots of pure race cars run it. I'm considering a more aggressive tune because of it's consistency, but I would test every drum just in case. However, just not sure if the aggressive tune is worth the extra hp or piece of mind of a safe tune.

Just looking at an E85 conversion for my Redeye, on stock pulley. Thinking flex just in case so I can put some pump in it, but likely I would run E85 all year long (except winter when it's stored). It's only a weekend car so I can justify the mpg loss. All I really want is to run some 9s in great DA/low 10s in mediocre DA. I'll have to ask Curt what he charges for a re-tune just in case in the future I want more power, lol.

Thanks for the info though!

*Edit* Also I know others change their oil more often with E85. Is it still okay to wait 6 months between oil changes? Even if you only run maybe 1k miles in that time period? I've heard others shorten oil changes, but I've heard 3k miles. No mention about if they shorten the length from 6 months to 3 months or something like that.

I was advised to change oil every 3K on E85 so I stick to that and I don't think the amount of time between oil changes matters nearly as much, its really about potential oil contamination which comes from mileage. I've been running E85 primarily for the last 14K miles since my car is a daily driver. I've had my oil tested twice at Blackstone Labs and both times the wear results have been normal. I even went 4K miles on one sample since I got behind on my oil change schedule and the oil sample was still normal. I'm due to change my oil again this upcoming weekend and I will send a third sample to Blackstone so we'll see what this one shows. I missed sending a sample on my previous oil change because I forgot to order more oil sample containers.

Here's a cool picture I posted on the other forum months ago after changing the oil in my car and my wife's Hellcat on the same day. Mine had 3K miles on the oil change (left), my wife's had about 4K miles on her oil change (right) but you can clearly see how much cleaner burning E85 is and its affect on the oil. My oil still looked very clean, my wife's Hellcat which only runs 93 octane looked black which is typically what you see on pump gas engines.

 

[MaxCarnage]

I was advised to chance oil every 3K on E85 so I stick to that and I don't think the amount of time between oil changes matters nearly as much, its really about potential oil contamination which comes from mileage. I've been running E85 primarily for the last 14K miles since my car is a daily driver. I've had my oil tested twice at Blackstone Labs and both times the wear results have been normal. I even went 4K miles on one sample since I got behind on my oil change schedule and the oil sample was still normal. I'm due to change my oil again this upcoming weekend and I will send a third sample to Blackstone so we'll see what this one shows. I missed sending a sample on my previous oil change because I forgot to order more oil sample containers.

Here's a cool picture I posted on the other forum months ago after changing the oil in my car and my wife's Hellcat on the same day. Mine had 3K miles on the oil change (left), my wife's had about 4K miles on her oil change (right) but you can clearly see how much cleaner burning E85 is and its affect on the oil. My oil still looked very clean, my wife's Hellcat which only runs 93 octane looked black which is typically what you see on pump gas engines.

View attachment 3656

All great info. I was at Napa auto supply here locally and on a related oil filter note they told me the mopar filter which is recommended has a 16lb spring in it, and the viper filter (SRT filter some use) has a 12lb spring in it. I'm going to run Schaffers oil now that it's made in 0W-40 (lots of my racer buddies love it) with a Napa gold filter (wix filter) part# 7899 which is equivalent to the Mopar filter (recommend in manual). I found it interesting that the filters have different spring rates though.

That oil looks much cleaner with E85. I'm trying to think of any single reason NOT to run E85, lol. Figure as long as I know the alcohol percentage it should be all good. The benefits seem to outweigh the drawbacks.