E85 questions

[coolblue]

All great info. I was at Napa auto supply here locally and on a related oil filter note they told me the mopar filter which is recommended has a 16lb spring in it, and the viper filter (SRT filter some use) has a 12lb spring in it. I'm going to run Schaffers oil now that it's made in 0W-40 (lots of my racer buddies love it) with a Napa gold filter (wix filter) part# 7899 which is equivalent to the Mopar filter (recommend in manual). I found it interesting that the filters have different spring rates though.

That oil looks much cleaner with E85. I'm trying to think of any single reason NOT to run E85, lol. Figure as long as I know the alcohol percentage it should be all good. The benefits seem to outweigh the drawbacks.

That was my first thought also but you gotta remember these are engines not human bodies. Sometimes what it looks like or is pleasing to the human eye is not necessarily the best. Sometimes a little grime or soot is what's best. Example: If you looked at 2 sparkplugs and one was totally clean and one was a little sooty and you didn't know better you would say "Oh the clean one is the good setup" but in reality it came out of an engine that was running lean and burned up a piston, while the other came out of a perfectly running motor. The Lab tests will be the true measure. The oil could look beautiful but still have some metal or fuel contaminants compared to the other.

 

[cole3986]

IMO, change the oil when it starts to smell like E85.

 

[motorhead]

The fact that any vendor doesn't offer a native flex fuel sensor and true flex fuel (one that compensates for content variation) is disturbing.

Next. It has been proven that anything past E60 presents diminishing returns with respect to power production and tempering unwanted combustion events. Moreover, given the lower BTUs of ethanol vs. gasoline - that additional 25% of ethanol content represents more volume occupied in the cylinder, and displaces room otherwise available for oxygen.

As for testing fuel - it is very simple to put a flex fuel sensor in the return line with a gauge. These kits are readily available, and if you don't want the gauge the sensor can even be logged in HP Tuners Pro through its I/Os.

 

[TMAC]

Lots of good input in this thread, and I have learned quite a bit. And while I was initially skeptical of it, I am now talking with the shop about making this switch. Maybe right away. Car is close to having all the mechanical work done. Only the FI chiller remains to be installed as far as parts.
Current setup should make ~15# boost. Were talking about upping that a couple pounds with the new 3.17" Litens.

 

[Blkout]

All great info. I was at Napa auto supply here locally and on a related oil filter note they told me the mopar filter which is recommended has a 16lb spring in it, and the viper filter (SRT filter some use) has a 12lb spring in it. I'm going to run Schaffers oil now that it's made in 0W-40 (lots of my racer buddies love it) with a Napa gold filter (wix filter) part# 7899 which is equivalent to the Mopar filter (recommend in manual). I found it interesting that the filters have different spring rates though.

That oil looks much cleaner with E85. I'm trying to think of any single reason NOT to run E85, lol. Figure as long as I know the alcohol percentage it should be all good. The benefits seem to outweigh the drawbacks.

They do for me. I only use 93 in a pinch when I can't get my hands on E85.

 

[Blkout]

Lots of good input in this thread, and I have learned quite a bit. And while I was initially skeptical of it, I am now talking with the shop about making this switch. Maybe right away. Car is close to having all the mechanical work done. Only the FI chiller remains to be installed as far as parts.
Current setup should make ~15# boost. Were talking about upping that a couple pounds with the new 3.17" Litens.

The only real drawback I've seen to using E85 is the initial cost to setup and availability of E85 in your area. For initial cost, dual pumps are a requirement, not an option, earlier model Hellcat's had single pumps so that would have to be upgraded. Later model Hellcat's (I believe 2018+ but don't quote me) come with dual pumps from the factory. Larger injectors are a requirement, FIC 1200 or ID 1300x2, large price different between the two, I would go with the FICs but I wasn't aware of them before I purchased my ID 1300x2's. After that, the car has to be tuned for E85 and Curt Dusterhoff is one of the best for this.

So yea, short term, race gas is cheaper because it doesn't require fuel pumps and injectors, however long term, race fuel is pricey and I love the flexibility to use any fuel I want without needing multiple tunes.

And one more pro for E85, not matter how much I beat on my car, it never ever puffs any smoke at full throttle which I attribute to the much cleaner burning E85. My wife's Hellcat constantly has black soot on her exhaust tips and will occasionally puff some smoke on hard throttle.

 

[motorhead]

Still waiting for folks to wake up to the advantages of supplemental fuel systems.

 

[Hpindy]

Still waiting for folks to wake up to the advantages of supplemental fuel systems.

Like a "Mr. Fusion" or some plutonium rods?

Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[AlleyCat]

ha ha. Even without a flex tune in a pinch I use premium. I just do not get on it. And of course she will be running rich while in the emergency situation with a rougher idle.

 

[Sinister_cat]

ha ha. Even without a flex tune in a pinch I use premium. I just do not get on it. And of course she will be running rich while in the emergency situation with a rougher idle.

You're in AZ right? Are you going to the no fly zone at Gila bend in a few weeks?

 

[AlleyCat]

I wish. CPA with own tax and accounting practice. Extension deadline. Plus to be honest I am not comfortable with the car even after one year. I have made a lot of changes to the rear end. I have just bought front runners. She does not hop down the track. But spins like crazy even with the 315 50 17 MT's on. Maybe with the front runners I will be able to transfer weight better and have a no drama run down the track. Once I feel comfortable with that then the 1/2 mile. But you never know. SRT and Tommy are telling me to go.

 

[FFBOS]

I've been on pump e85 for 12,000 miles straight. I probably have 200 + WOT pulls on it as well. Every single tank I put in is tested to verify content. Especially when I've had first hand experience of a tank getting "misfilled" with garbage. Too much at risk to get lazy.

Having a content gauge does you no good. You fill your tank with e70 hoping for e85...now what? Drive it all out. If you look at the fuel and test it for the minute that it takes before hand, you know what you have on hand. It isn't difficult at all. Owners with these setups need to be responsible if they want this power level and want to use "pump" e85.

 

[cole3986]

I've been on pump e85 for 12,000 miles straight. I probably have 200 + WOT pulls on it as well. Every single tank I put in is tested to verify content. Especially when I've had first hand experience of a tank getting "misfilled" with garbage. Too much at risk to get lazy.

Having a content gauge does you no good. You fill your tank with e70 hoping for e85...now what? Drive it all out. If you look at the fuel and test it for the minute that it takes before hand, you know what you have on hand. It isn't difficult at all. Owners with these setups need to be responsible if they want this power level and want to use "pump" e85.

Responsible? That is crazy talk, it is bartenders fault you drank too much, the car manufacturers fault the car goes that fast, and maybe you live in cave but those crazy "assault" guns just kill people on their own, gotta keep them under armed guard, they will sneak out of the gun safe and go crazy. Their is talk of outlawing forks, they make people fat, gotta use your hands for now on.

Back to E85, if the engine blows up, just blame the gas station and litigate it, no need to test anything,

 

[Primetime Hellcat 17]

I wish. CPA with own tax and accounting practice. Extension deadline. Plus to be honest I am not comfortable with the car even after one year. I have made a lot of changes to the rear end. I have just bought front runners. She does not hop down the track. But spins like crazy even with the 315 50 17 MT's on. Maybe with the front runners I will be able to transfer weight better and have a no drama run down the track. Once I feel comfortable with that then the 1/2 mile. But you never know. SRT and Tommy are telling me to go.

Alleycat are you going to 1/2 mile event? I will be there! I see you got the big boy tires on lol. I have same set up. Just got my cat back about a month ago from Tommy. You should go. I’m thinking SRT AutoWorks is gonna dominate majority of the cars but not all of them. Marc will be there. He might hit 195mph plus. It’s gonna be fun. I think 5-6 members from this forum will be there. Good times.

 

[Primetime Hellcat 17]

A little cool down with e85. 955/1010

1010 torque is awesome. How did you hit those torque numbers?

 

[Primetime Hellcat 17]

I hit 954rwhp and 938 torque/ stock blower/426 stroker in 110 degrees heat. 1010 torque is BA!

 

[AlleyCat]

I think I have more hp. Did not let it cool down enough. Demon cam? And it was not a blip. It was over 900 at 2500 rpm and stayed over 1000 for almost 500 rpm. Also demon convertor?

 

[Blkout]

I've been on pump e85 for 12,000 miles straight. I probably have 200 + WOT pulls on it as well. Every single tank I put in is tested to verify content. Especially when I've had first hand experience of a tank getting "misfilled" with garbage. Too much at risk to get lazy.

Having a content gauge does you no good. You fill your tank with e70 hoping for e85...now what? Drive it all out. If you look at the fuel and test it for the minute that it takes before hand, you know what you have on hand. It isn't difficult at all. Owners with these setups need to be responsible if they want this power level and want to use "pump" e85.

I'm not testing mine and haven't been for 16k miles. The E85 would have to be EXTREMELY poor content for mine to be an issue. Even 30% ethanol has an octane rating of about 97-98 which is enough for my setup. Now for those that are running more extreme setups like a 2.50 or 2.40 pulley and/or lower also, your octane needs are a lot higher so you would most likely need at least 60% ethanol. I stayed conservative with my pulley setup. 2.65 is only slight more aggressive than 2.85 so I can get away with just about any blend of ethanol as long as its at least 30% or better. That being said, the two stations I get my E85 from, have always been at least 75% ethanol everytime I've checked it with HP Tuners.

 

[FFBOS]

Responsible? That is crazy talk, it is bartenders fault you drank too much, the car manufacturers fault the car goes that fast, and maybe you live in cave but those crazy "assault" guns just kill people on their own, gotta keep them under armed guard, they will sneak out of the gun safe and go crazy. Their is talk of outlawing forks, they make people fat, gotta use your hands for now on.

Back to E85, if the engine blows up, just blame the gas station and litigate it, no need to test anything,

You forgot you need to blame the tuner too lol

 

[FFBOS]

I'm not testing mine and haven't been for 16k miles. The E85 would have to be EXTREMELY poor content for mine to be an issue. Even 30% ethanol has an octane rating of about 97-98 which is enough for my setup. Now for those that are running more extreme setups like a 2.50 or 2.40 pulley and/or lower also, your octane needs are a lot higher so you would most likely need at least 60% ethanol. I stayed conservative with my pulley setup. 2.65 is only slight more aggressive than 2.85 so I can get away with just about any blend of ethanol as long as its at least 30% or better. That being said, the two stations I get my E85 from, have always been at least 75% ethanol everytime I've checked it with HP Tuners.

Here is why you test.....I alone was the reason a gas station had to have their tank emptied, cleaned, and refilled. Guys could of had huge issues if this wasn’t caught, especially considering so many blindly fill jugs there for racing.