Stock Fuel Rails, why they don’t keep up

[16GoManGoHC2]

Did you post old vs new ratios?

Not a comparison in a same post, I can find some pics though and post, what exactly you wanting to see? A good clean street 1/4 run with the 2.98 trans? Only issue may be is pictures of each runs each gear G force data, I just started paying more attention to its usefulness in the last few months. Let me see what I can find.
My next post was actually going to be on what this thread actually started out as, fuel system restrictions and mods. I finally have some close apples to apples data as temps where around 45 on yesterday’s one run. Short skinny on that until I do a better post on it, the mods helped measurably. I’m not maxed out on pump DC yet and so far have only hit 76% DC on injectors and that’s with running about E90 in the tank at the moment. Snd that’s with the Fore 88mm Microglass 5 micron filter assembly in place now. Before I’d max out pump DC and fuel pressure would start dropping and I’d hit 85-88% on injector DC triggering the boost bypass to open.
Don’t fret about the STKR seen, false knock that I’ve been working out of tune wise. That was the dyno visit reason, looking for signs of real knock get done tailpipe afr readings, I’m on the fat side that adds to the noise.

 

[BULL]

Not a comparison in a same post, I can find some pics though and post, what exactly you wanting to see? A good clean street 1/4 run with the 2.98 trans? Only issue may be is pictures of each runs each gear G force data, I just started paying more attention to its usefulness in the last few months. Let me see what I can find.
My next post was actually going to be on what this thread actually started out as, fuel system restrictions and mods. I finally have some close apples to apples data as temps where around 45 on yesterday’s one run. Short skinny on that until I do a better post on it, the mods helped measurably. I’m not maxed out on pump DC yet and so far have only hit 76% DC on injectors and that’s with running about E90 in the tank at the moment. Snd that’s with the Fore 88mm Microglass 5 micron filter assembly in place now. Before I’d max out pump DC and fuel pressure would start dropping and I’d hit 85-88% on injector DC triggering the boost bypass to open.
Don’t fret about the STKR seen, false knock that I’ve been working out of tune wise. That was the dyno visit reason, looking for signs of real knock get done tailpipe afr readings, I’m on the fat side that adds to the noise.
View attachment 54736

I was actually just curious to see the actual ratios of your old gears versus your new gears and be able to compare each of them. I of course know the stock M6 ratios.

 

[Speedy!]

Why'd you change ratios?

 

[vortecd]

Speaking of temps. Well so much for Misimoto Tstats being the best. Did a 3-4 tuning pull, all was well, then noticed coolant temp creeping up, 205, 210, 215, 220, started looking for a place to pull over, luckily a dead end road right ahead. Pulled over, opened hood, fan running on high, 225, 230 shut her off. My heart sunk yet again, first thoughts popped a head gasket, no way, studded. So started poking around, lower radiator hose stone cold, f n stuck Tstat. Luckily there was an Advance Auto a 1/2 mile down the road. Got a new 180 CarQuest premium Tstat (Motorad in the box), bought a cheap 13 mm box end wrench, picked up a gallon of distilled water and box of 1 gallon zip lock bags to catch the coolant and changed Stat on the side of the road. Hour later back on my way. So I guess the motorad is staying in there as it’s actually doing a better job at stable temps then the Misi, lesson learned. Plunger blew out of the thing, WTF!!! View attachment 54701 View attachment 54702 View attachment 54703 View attachment 54704 View attachment 54705 View attachment 54706

@jonx96 what brand was yours that failed at challenger fest?

 

[jonx96]

@jonx96 what brand was yours that failed at challenger fest?

I had the HHP one failed during the run. She was way hot at the end of the pull.
Over winter when I put the hhp one in the factory one was broke in half. So maybe I’m just bad luck.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Why'd you change ratios?

2.98 ratio one only available in 4340 material rated at 850 ft lbs. The 2.66 is all 9310 hardened ground and lapped gears and 9310 shafts and steel 2-3 shift fork, rated at 1400 ft lbs, about 2,000$ more but already broke one 4340 unit this was highly recommended.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

I was actually just curious to see the actual ratios of your old gears versus your new gears and be able to compare each of them. I of course know the stock M6 ratios.

O, that’s easy. Here’s what I have now, what it was, and what stock with a 3.90 is

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Just got home from visiting the bridge, DA about 0 here, car LOVES IT!! Liking this tranny more and more
Car timer getting it pretty close as well.

 

[why2kmax]

I love that bridge! Still hit it twice everytime I go home

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Picked up some new goodies to try. First is a 3.90 Diff, it’s going to rob from my 4th and 5th top end a bit but will give me the acceleration back in third that was lost from the 1.43 to 1.30 gear ratio difference and give quicker acceleration in fourth and fifth so I have to try it. Hopefully get this done before winter shuts testing down.


Next which will be a over winter project to turn things up with next year is this gem. Plan to drive it with a 10 % OD ATI Super Damper which should net about the same 17-17.5 lbs I see now with current 2.4 massaged blower and a 2.85 just with a cooler aircharge. But probably before installation add a more free flowing billet inlet plate to in, port the snout and at the very least feed it with my 95 mm Fastman TB or the 100 BBK for 18-19 psi of boost and maybe eclipse the 1000 wheel figure I’ve been wanting to get too.

 

[Hpindy]

Picked up some new goodies to try. First is a 3.90 Diff, it’s going to rob from my 4th and 5th top end a bit but will give me the acceleration back in third that was lost from the 1.43 to 1.30 gear ratio difference and give quicker acceleration in fourth and fifth so I have to try it. Hopefully get this done before winter shuts testing down.
View attachment 55966

Next which will be a over winter project to turn things up with next year is this gem. Plan to drive it with a 10 % OD ATI Super Damper which should net about the same 17-17.5 lbs I see now with current 2.4 massaged blower and a 2.85 just with a cooler aircharge. But probably before installation add a more free flowing billet inlet plate to in, port the snout and at the very least feed it with my 95 mm Fastman TB or the 100 BBK for 18-19 psi of boost and maybe eclipse the 1000 wheel figure I’ve been wanting to get too.
View attachment 55967 View attachment 55968

The 3.90's will definitely help get that "brisk" acceleration back for sure . It will definitely be a more fun street car with the close ratio transmission gear set and 3.90's.

Sent from my BBF100-2 using Tapatalk

 

[vortecd]

Be interesting if you even notice the difference from a 3.7 to 3.9. I don't notice the difference from a 2.62 to 3.09 which is a much bigger jump but also comparing stick to a auto

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Be interesting if you even notice the difference from a 3.7 to 3.9. I don't notice the difference from a 2.62 to 3.09 which is a much bigger jump but also comparing stick to a auto

Yea, that’s a “I gots ta know” one for me as well lol
By looking at these graphs it will allow a faster spool up time, third will almost be what it was before and has to be an improvement in fourth and 5th for sure, I’ll be finding myself shifting into 6th on mile runs though, hope it can handle it. Heat because of extended time using it is the gear killer up top.
I have very accurate G force graphs of pull velocity so i don’t have to rely on seat of the pants feel. This data will be collected during 1/4 mile pulls so I’ll have mph by the foot by time in .001 second increments so Data will be the judge which one stays.

 

[Jack_Toepfer]

Are you building another Hellcat with the parts you’re taking off of the car?

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Are you building another Hellcat with the parts you’re taking off of the car?

Pretty soon

 

[BULL]

Be interesting if you even notice the difference from a 3.7 to 3.9. I don't notice the difference from a 2.62 to 3.09 which is a much bigger jump but also comparing stick to a auto

It obviously not a big change, but I could tell a difference in mine.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

OK, after almost 1 year, 34 pages, a broken heart with my side kick Kaci passing on Christmas Eve , an engine rebuild, a blown radiator at 140+, 2 sets of Axles, 1 Tranzilla Trans, 2 Diffs, many many 1/4 mile runs and self tuning, about 200 gallons of E85, a 55 gallon drum of E98, and I’m probably forgetting a bunch of little things the weather (32F) was finally here again for the concluding data to be collected for the title of this thread, or should I say saga lol.

So take note to below in looking over the data logs and my conclusion the fuel rail and fuel line modifications where a success.

Nothing has been changed in the fuel delivery system except for removing restrictions shown in this thread, the same ID1050X injectors (freshly cleaned and tested by ID) same fuel pumps (dual 285’s in a Fore hat) BUT I a added restriction to the fuel line with adding a Fore 88mm MicroGlass fuel filter unit and its connections, fittings, and hose.

So last night I was out playing, temp was about 32F, DA -1000, pretty much ditto of last years conditions when I ran out of pump, leading to injectors maxing out at 90% DC which lead to the bypass valve opening to bleed boost and save the day. So 3 1/4 pulls last night on this data log, here’s 2 short videos of the high end of 2 of those 1/4 passes, the first and the last, the middle was the same info. Yes, you will see injector DC hit around 85-86% but look at the rpm it’s now about 6850 verse 6550 last December. In replacing the broken Tranzilla to get a stronger 9310 unit I had to go with a higher ratio 2.66 unit verse the 2.98 unit I was running last December which new unit has a higher 1.30 third gear verse the 1.43 in the 2.98 unit and the car was not pulling as many G’s in third as last year so I changed the Diff to a 3.90 unit over the weekend which gets my third gear back closer to the final drive ratio of the 1.43/3.70 combo but takes 8 mph off the 1:1 4th gear in both so I upped the rev limiter to 6850 now to get 144 mph capability back from this new trans / Diff combo. Plus now with the engine rebuild I installed a Demon cam and JBA 1 7/8” headers now and probably moving more air and making a tad bit more HP then last year. (Wallace HP calculator says for a 4850 lb vehicle running 138.78 in the 1/4 (1/4 in log data) thats just shy of 1000 RWHP so it’s definitely making more hp then last year). Look at the pump DC, it’s just hitting 89% at the top of the 1/4 and injector DC of 85-86 % just as it hits the Rev limiter up top. I think it was a success!! I still have a dual 295 Steve White fuel pump setup sitting new in the box waiting on this data collection to be installed, if it where not for the 1/4 tank sucking air during hard acceleration crap of the pumps just hanging off the Fore hat I wouldn’t even bother installing this SW unit except for now testing it and seeing what dual 295’s net in this cold weather and what they really do during low fuel situations. Maybe that will be the next test, see what the pump snd injector DC is like with the dual 295’s. I here I just told my wife last night I’m about done with the car for this year and can get working on her wants now, O boy, now what???😂

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Wallace calculator says this as well



That’s with a projected 1.5 60 ft, the car has done a best of 1.39 60’ on a well prepared track (the time it ran a 9.998 at 134 on pump gas) and does 1.5’s pretty consistently in the past so getting back into the 9’s again is not out of reach, hoping it warms up for one last hurrah day of the year at Island for that medal 🎖 lol

 

[vortecd]

Wallace calculator says this as well

View attachment 57186

That’s with a projected 1.5 60 ft, the car has done a best of 1.39 60’ on a well prepared track (the time it ran a 9.998 at 134 on pump gas) and does 1.5’s pretty consistently in the past so getting back into the 9’s again is not out of reach, hoping it warms up for one last hurrah day of the year at Island for that medal 🎖 lol

Do you weigh 500 lbs? No challenger should be that heavy

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Do you weigh 500 lbs? No challenger should be that heavy

Base weight is around 4500 lbs. I’m 185, that’s what it weighed with full tank of fuel and me in it on a calibrated drive on scale, 48 and change +/- 10 lbs. Unfortunately I’ve never taken weight out of the car, just added crap and it adds up. That’s with floor liners + mats + show mats in the trunk, trunk liner, car cover in the trunk, killer chiller + 1.5 gallon tank and the lines, radiator that weighs more + almost 3/4 gallon more of fluid, 20 lb DS loop, P4D Diff and race brace, laptop, this all totals probably another 120-130 lbs, 4500+185+125= 48 and change, it adds up to about match what the scale said it weighed.