The price was right so I snagged it but...

[MikeD1]

Itd be a long ship for you but we could knock this out in my garage

Yeah, that starts to get pricey + adds a lot of down time.
Then there is the issue of repairs/maintenance if anything goes bump (and eventually that will happen).

The unicorn hunt in FL continues ............................

 

[Speedy!]

@16GoManGoHC2 thanks for the offer! I've got more testing to do before I decide a material fuel system change is in order. Lowering commanded fuel pressure changes things as well. I'm commanding 80psi factory pressure at present. Raising commanded fuel pressure higher is actually common practice and I've not played with that yet.

We'll see how it goes.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

What is best for trims and fuel delivery consistency is consistent fuel pressure across the demand range at the injector inlet. I tried the raising the fuel pressure suggestion, it still dipped to just as low as it did at a lower setting making getting trim tight is tough especially across varying atmospheric pressure changes. What is best is to set it at the lowest it dips too and tune for that but that pressure may be too low for proper atomization as remember as boost gets higher fuel pressure differential at the injector nozzle gets lower. Like for me 73 psi at the injector inlet minus 24 psi of boost equals a 49 psi differential across the injector. Higher rail pressure is better for a few reasons but only if you can maintain it, fluctuating fuel pressure is not a good thing. Let me know, I’ll do them for ya, there’s no risk to your rails or structural integrity issues that would weaken them, I only take out excess material left in the passages from how they build them.

 

[vortecd]

I think if you did the fuel line mods Ive been suggesting your current fuel delivery system would keep up without going to a BAP. Mine keeps up to much more No BAP . Yes, my injectors are bigger but fuel flow is fuel flow to the injectors the pumps have no idea how big they are. My fuel pressure is set at 73 psi and the twin 295’s no BAP keep up with that with a bit of pump duty cycle left to spare. Could probably go to 75-76 psi but there’s no need to as I have injector DC left to spare yet because of their size. I’m pushing at times over 24 psi and 2350 Aircharge and I don’t think my pump DC has been over 85% yet. This was just in negative 1100 DA, last hurrah of the year, spin city due to cold roads but still managed 5.50 60-130 times and a 11.3 at 143 1/4 with a super shitty no grip 2.2 60 ft (M6 remember so having a trans/engine tune to help launching is all in 2 feet unfortunately not PCM and TCM) Its winter, send me your fuel rails I’ll do them for free and you take care of the restrictions in the beginning and end of the fuel line by tank to engine bay and I bet you end up with pump to spare again. Or your money back lol.
View attachment 87531 View attachment 87532 View attachment 87533

I have whipple fuel rails, 1650 injectors and was losing fuel pressure why I went to the BAP

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

I have whipple fuel rails, 1650 injectors and was losing fuel pressure why I went to the BAP

What your fuel pressure dip too? Me, I just don’t like BAP’s, neither do the people who make the pump I wouldn’t think. I’d hang a 3rd pump before I used a BAP but that’s just me. Eventually the stock fuel line becomes too small no matter what unless you raise the pressure even higher and there’s a limit to that too. The restrictions in the supply line design don’t help matters, and they’re easy to remove, again, without compromising line strength or sealing at all. They built them with mass production in mind and to flow what was needed to keep up with stock fuel demand. There’s a reason the Demon and RE WOT fuel pressure was increase verse standard Hellcat it was to make smallish size injectors bigger and get past fuel line restrictions without changing the process in how they were made.
Here’s the first restrictions from the tank to engine bay, like having a restrictor orfice in each end. Easily removed with a reamer, blow line clean with compressed air and done, hour 2 max job. There’s no way removing that stuff can’t lead to an increase in flow at the same inlet pressure, it’s physics not opinion, would something like that be acceptable in the intake or exhaust path anywhere? Of course not. My .O2 at least, a BAP is a band aide plane and simple, a part that can fail, removing the restrictions is permanent and not a failure point as long as one deburs the ends correctly and doesn’t nick a oring in a fitting on assembly, that’s why their rounded, for quick wham bam assembly by folks who don’t care.

 

[vortecd]

What your fuel pressure dip too? Me, I just don’t like BAP’s, neither do the people who make the pump I wouldn’t think. I’d hang a 3rd pump before I used a BAP but that’s just me. Eventually the stock fuel line becomes too small no matter what unless you raise the pressure even higher and there’s a limit to that too. The restrictions in the supply line design don’t help matters, and they’re easy to remove, again, without compromising line strength or sealing at all. They built them with mass production in mind and to flow what was needed to keep up with stock fuel demand. There’s a reason the Demon and RE WOT fuel pressure was increase verse standard Hellcat it was to make smallish size injectors bigger and get past fuel line restrictions without changing the process in how they were made.
Here’s the first restrictions from the tank to engine bay, like having a restrictor orfice in each end. Easily removed with a reamer, blow line clean with compressed air and done, hour 2 max job. There’s no way removing that stuff can’t lead to an increase in flow at the same inlet pressure, it’s physics not opinion, would something like that be acceptable in the intake or exhaust path anywhere? Of course not. My .O2 at least, a BAP is a band aide plane and simple, a part that can fail, removing the restrictions is permanent and not a failure point as long as one deburs the ends correctly and doesn’t nick a oring in a fitting on assembly, that’s why their rounded, for quick wham bam assembly by folks who don’t care. View attachment 87538 View attachment 87539 View attachment 87540 View attachment 87541 View attachment 87542 View attachment 87543 View attachment 87544 View attachment 87545

I had a couple gears dropping to 65 psi with injectors well in the 80's. After the BAP set real low (need to bump it a little) was seeing fuel pressure stay close at 75psi and injectors in the 60s% dipped in the low 70s a couple of times. Much improved. @jonx96 doesn't like the heat of the 3 pumps running all the time

He and I are not huge fans of the BAP but it seems to work

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

I had a couple gears dropping to 65 psi with injectors well in the 80's. After the BAP set real low (need to bump it a little) was seeing fuel pressure stay close at 75psi and injectors in the 60s% dipped in the low 70s a couple of times. Much improved. @jonx96 doesn't like the heat of the 3 pumps running all the time

He and I are not huge fans of the BAP but it seems to work

I’d run 3 285 pumps (the ones with check valves) all 3 on FPCM’s with one on a boost controlled timed relay that comes on above X boost and stays on for 10 seconds or so after being triggered, ie 10 seconds longer/after the demand to run signal comes. It would only run when needed and and run at same speed as the others following commanded desired fuel pressure. Would act as a spare pump in the tank as well should ind fail. That’s my next plan when/if I need more fuel. I already have 2 285’s in a box and a boost reference adapter for the blower and the 12 volt relay and an extra FPCM around so mine as well use it and see how my solution works. Can also just run the 3 pumps individually on 3 separate FPCM’s (you can run as many as wanted off the same reference wire) all the time, they would run slow (and cool) until needed to ramp up.

 

[Speedy!]

You wanna sell those 285s? Testing today shows I have a bad one

Explains some of the odd results I've been seeing.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

You wanna sell those 285s? Testing today shows I have a bad one

Explains some of the odd results I've been seeing.

Yes it would and good catch!!
You’re better off getting a new one, or better yet a pair of new ones from Rick at Tapped, keep the removed still good one as a spare. Or even better upgrade to dual 295’s, don’t let the No check valve thing scare you as startup is no different, for me at least, it’s instant fire on crank. One draw back of no check valve is if one fails you have no fuel pressure which in a way is a good thing as it acts just like rpm limiting fuel cut not starve your engine unknowingly like having 1 of 2 (or more) fail and you starve your engine of fuel but thank God proper tuning will open the bypass and shut you down quick over 90% DC. Bad part is there’s no limping home, one reason on my list to go to triple 285’s. I read somewhere once that with running E85 it’s recommended to replace the pump(s) every year, yea, WOW aye? I can’t find that article again now, may have been on Fore’s site as Ti says life is 10-20 years on their site?? If their out of stock and you can’t get one let me know I will send you one of mine no problem.

https://tapped-performance.myshopify.com/products/ti-fuel-pumps

Buy new filters for just 10$ each is highly recommended.

 

[Speedy!]

Summit gad pretty good prices so enroute.

I dunno about replacing them yearly but I will be running a yearly test from here on. Crazy it failed so soon. Probably has 15,000 miles on it.

 

[BULL]

Summit gad pretty good prices so enroute.

I dunno about replacing them yearly but I will be running a yearly test from here on. Crazy it failed so soon. Probably has 15,000 miles on it.

So I was mildly surprised when your dual-pump setup did not fully support your engine.

Do you think it was failing before you went down the JMS hole?

Is it completely dead?

 

[1971demon]

NOS highly addictive be careful of that drug😆

I had it once in the dentist office...awesome...I wanted to come back once a week for a NOS fix...

 

[MXS67454]

Maybe not for you, I'm probably qualified/capable of replacing the CAI and then I'm at a hard stop. Plus there are ZERO shops around here that would be of assistance. Been looking for 2 months now for a shop to do some upgrades to the Durango & still no joy.

American Muscle Performance (AMP) in Pompano Beach does a lot of late model Mopar. have you contacted them ?

 

[vortecd]

So I was mildly surprised when your dual-pump setup did not fully support your engine.

Do you think it was failing before you went down the JMS hole?

Is it completely dead?

Have to keep in mind e85 changes everything. I have 1650s and 295 pumps and around 6000 I was starting to lose pressure.

 

[jonx96]

So I was mildly surprised when your dual-pump setup did not fully support your engine.

Do you think it was failing before you went down the JMS hole?

Is it completely dead?

Honestly from what I have seen. What the dual pumps are supposed to handle are overrated. You can go to a bigger injector and make up for it.

 

[16GoManGoHC2]

Honestly from what I have seen. What the dual pumps are supposed to handle are overrated. You can go to a bigger injector and make up for it.

I agree here, I took @jonx96 advice here and went to ID1700’s , reduced WOT commanded fuel pressure to its lowest dip seen, 73 psi, tuned injectors for such, and I’ve seen almost 25 lbs of boost and 2360 aircharge and dual 295 pumps NO BAP and don’t hit max fuel pump duty cycle anymore and fuel pressure stays at the commanded # and fuel trims remain consistent not all over. But I did remove restrictions from the stock fuel line tank to engine bay and also in the stock fuel rails. I also run a Microglass 5 micron fuel filter in the fuel line (a restriction no doubt) and the dual 295 system still keeps up.

 

[MikeD1]

American Muscle Performance (AMP) in Pompano Beach does a lot of late model Mopar. have you contacted them ?

I've heard there are some good places in the Boca area, but it's a 4 hour hike - long way to go if there are issues.
Worth giving them a call tho & hear what they have to say !

 

[Speedy!]

So I was mildly surprised when your dual-pump setup did not fully support your engine.

Do you think it was failing before you went down the JMS hole?

Is it completely dead?

@BULL you've seen updated/behind the scenes video on the channel I believe. Those are much more recent than the ones posted here publicly

I was getting some really weird testing results and couldn't figure out why. More content coming on that as well to help others who end up going down this road. In later testing BEFORE the JMS I was losing fuel pressure. That's the reason I got the JMS to begin with.

Short story, it seemed I'd get varying results every time I ran a test. Using a DMM to check things it all checked out, but the data logs didn't agree. One last thought I had was that "maybe" the Redeye fuel rails had a different fuel pressure sensor in them but I couldn't find anywhere in the tune to rescale that sensor so I emailed Mike @ OST to ask. He confirmed no place to rescale the fuel pressure sensor and doubted that was the issue. He asked if I had tested the fuel pumps as he'd seen more than one Redeye come through his shop with a failed and or failing pump.

I had done a simple idle test as described in the Tapped drop in documentation. Just unplug one pump at a time and fire up the car to make sure it runs, and mine did no problem. However at my wits end yesterday I decided to go for a drive on each pump and just see what happened. First I ran the car on just pump 1. Got out on the highway everything looked good, so I gently eased in to the throttle (NOT WOT) to put some load on it. It made 70psi all by itself which was excellent and everything else was OK. I then performed that same test on pump 2. Everything was fine until I eased down on the throttle. Car got super unhappy and stumbled. Data log showed 23psi of fuel pressure telling me that pump is failing.

So no, it's not an all at once failure it seems. It gradually gets weaker and weaker. Going back and looking at logs from Moparty in September fuel pressure was all perfect which is what kept throwing me off. I added the 2.7 supercharger, so hmmm must be maxing out the fuel pumps. Add the JMS and not much difference, JMS must be having a problem, right? LOL What an ordeal to determine a fuel pump is almost gone out.

I will say these 285 pumps can flow a LOT of fuel. I've basically been on 1.25 pumps (instead of 2) and it's been holding right at 70psi fuel pressure with 20-22psi of boost. Impressive. The fact it was ALWAYS 70psi is what made me look deeper as it was too consistent of a number. I knew something somewhere wasn't right. When putting the JMS on only one pump, I'd get different results as well which now makes sense. Jon and I have been on the phone a lot kicking ideas around for a couple weeks.

I've got two new 285s in bound. I went with those because I want the check valve, not so much for starting the car but for the fact if a pump fails I can still get home. With the 295s if a pump fails you're stuck since the fuel will flow out the bad pump since there is no check valve.

I will say I'm thankful my injector pw safety net in the tune works as designed. This likely saved my motor. I'm surprised and disappointed the pump failed so soon. First fuel pump I've ever had go out in any vehicle, and hearing it's a common issue is disheartening.

 

[DavidKFla]

Yeah, that starts to get pricey + adds a lot of down time.
Then there is the issue of repairs/maintenance if anything goes bump (and eventually that will happen).

The unicorn hunt in FL continues ............................

What exactly do you want done?

 

[MikeD1]

What exactly do you want done?

No much on the Cat - basically what the Stage kit was suppose to deliver - t-stat, CAI, pulley, unlock pcm & HP Tuners device + tune (by Jon) - maybe more (pined crank?). Thinking about the head unit swap as well, not sure it's worth bothering with tho since all I ever use it for is the Performance Pages.

Durango - brakes, exhaust, LSD, t-stat, CAI. Then either Whipple kit or headers/plugs/6.4 intake/ported heads maybe mild cam kit. Again would need the unlock pcm & HP Tuners device + bypass cable + tune (by Jon). Whipple includes all that & their tune, would run that for a bit then get Jon to tweak it.

Really more focused on the 'Rango at this point.